(no subject)

[lolabobs]

I have a male friend. He's single, doesn't really like himself, but wants a partner.
(Oops - realise this sounds like I'm about to draft a personal ad for him, it's not. I'm just trying to set the scene.)

When we are out together he is constantly looking at girls. As in constantly, as in lose the track of our conversation follow them across the room with his eyes, looking. If we go to a pub he chooses where to sit based on having a good view of the room. When we are ensconced in our seats, or there's no one else around, he is focussed. He is considerate and cares for his friends and I'm not trying to make him sound bad here, but trying to explain what it's like.

It's just it bugs me on two very different levels.

On the one hand - whilst I do not want him to like/want me at all, I do like to have the attention of people I'm with in the same way as they get mine. In that I don't want 100% uninterrupted focus, but I would like not to feel that the second a young girl walks past, our conversation will be put on hold while he ogles. I have called him on it and it's now almost a joke -"you know what I'm like", "I'm a man", "did you see what she was(n't) wearing" "hubba hubba" - being the kind of answers that he gives.

I think it's just that it's so constant that it sometimes makes me wonder why I'm bothering to be there, distracting him from his main goal.

The other hand is a little more complex, in that it makes me feel abnormal. 'cos I *don't* spend my time ogling other people. I glance at people when they pass (and when I'm with him I now find myself looking out for girls he's going to find attractive), but generally I don't. And I don't just mean I don't leer like he does, I mean I generally don't look at people that way. It's hard to explain. I obviously look at folk, I can abstractly assess them and can see if someone is good looking or not, but in general I'm not attracted to them*. Certainly not folk in passing. When he sees someone he will say things about being sexually aroused, or wanting to sleep with them etc etc and I just don't do that. And he's so matter of fact about his 'looking', as if it's completely natural and not at all unusual, that it makes me conclude I must be the odd one.


*obviously I can look at tv shows and see people there that I think are gorgeous, but that's in an almost abstract way. So removed from reality as to not count. And I don't imagine myself fucking them either.

I don't know.

Comments

[kassidy62.livejournal.com]

I actually think he's being rude. Not saying he's doing it on purpose, but if you feel like he's only paying attention when no one else is around to look at, and you're distracting him from that, I'd trust that feeling. What to do about it depends on how close you are, I guess?

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

It's a difficult one really - he has such low self esteem that any serious criticism (even if constructively phrased) sends him into a spiral of woe. (although I think he uses that sometimes to avoid such conversations.)

I don't know. Sometimes he's easier to deal with than others. He can be quite thoughtless and inconsiderate at times, others he's incrdibly giving.

It's good to know that others see his behaviour as inappropriate though, to know that I'm not just being oversensitive.

[ugerchucker.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean, I rarely look at people when I'm out. I mean, I notice them, but it's rare that I watch anyone or notice how attractive they are. It's usually something I notice if they start talking to me, otherwise I'm fairly oblivious, so you're not the only one.

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

Thanks - It's nice to know I'm not the only one!

[jekesta]

I think he's being really rude, and I hate people that are like that, sort of acknowledging that they're more interested in being distracted than talking to the person they're with. Pah.

Men are taught culturally much more to look at women than women are to look at men, so that might be some of it. But also some of it is probably habit. And I don't think it makes you abnormal, there are lots of people like you and other people like him. I know you're just saying it's making you think, but it doesn't make you actually abnormal, I think. (I don't really know where I fall in this, sometimes I notice people being incredibly attractive somehow, but I'm definitely not constantly looking or noticing.)

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

It is rude isn't it - I'm feeling a little bolstered that other people think so, not that I have to have people agree with me, but it's nice to not think I'm being over sensitive. I can ignore it sometmes, others it just really bugs me.

I think, even when I see someone who I think is beautiful, I still don't think of them in a 'I want to have sex with them' kind of way and maybe it's how blatant he is about that aspect of his looking that irritates me as well.

[pebblerocker]

It doesn't sound like a useful way for him to find a partner anyway! "Hi, I saw you leering at me, want to hang out?" Not likely...

For myself, whether I notice people around me and how they look varies during the month, but usually it doesn't cross my mind to consider whether someone is attractive or not. And yes, mainly in an abstract way.

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

I pointed that out to him - asking if he leers like that when he is on a date? and he says 'of course not' - I should have said then I guess, that if he can control it then he can damn well control it with me! Missed opportunities!

[whatho.livejournal.com]

I don't think that degree of distraction at passers by is massively usual - I don't know anyone personally who's incapable of sustaining a conversation because of pausing to ogle. But regardless, it's definitely rude. I'd be ill-inclined to start a conversation with someone who's apt to do that - it's like picking up a book when you're in the middle of a sentence.

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

I know it sounds stupid to have needed other people to tell me, but yes, it is rude, and now other people have said I am able to recognise that and realise it isn't just me being hypersensitive.

I have mentioned it, like I said, but it seems so entrenched. I guess I'm going to have to be a bit more explicit in future.

[mrs-sweetpeach.livejournal.com]

Your friend is a git and doesn't deserve your friendship. He is also unlikely to attract the woman of his dreams as behavior like that will undoubtedly drive them away.

As for how common noticing other people's attractiveness is, I don't think I normally do in RL. I think I mostly notice the attractiveness of bodies when they're on my television screen (and even then I doubt it would prevent me from, say, carrying on a conversation with someone).

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

He's only a git in this regard, that's what maks it difficult, if he were like that across all aspects I could quite happily distract myself, but he's very considerate and thoughtful in other aspects.

I know what you mean about deterring those he seeks to attract though.

I've just sat here and thought and no, even the most gorgeous of my telly "crushes" wouldn't prevent me from functioning. (unless it was a pivotal plot point of something, and even then I'd say "Shush a minute, I need to see.." and then apologise afterwards!)

[curiositykate.livejournal.com]

I think that's rude on a number of levels. Definitely rude to ignore the person you're with, but I also think leering over strangers is pretty rude in general. I have to admit, I'm the kind of person who admires strangers all the time but I am always sure to be discreet about it -- I never stare or ogle. No matter how attractive I find somebody, I know my reaction is entirely because of me and it is not "their fault", and it certainly doesn't excuse any kind of rudeness/disrespect. Maybe it helps that I'm female so I know what it's like to be ogled, and so I can more clearly see the difference between a glance and a stare and I know where to draw the line. Frustratingly, this culture seems to encourage men to ogle though (and tells women they should be flattered). I really hate that ridiculous (not to mention dangerous) idea that men as a sex are biologically incapable of controlling their sexual urges, and so therefore we ought to excuse them all kinds of things because they just can't help it.

And yes, it's definitely rude to ignore somebody you're with, and be so easily distracted! I know it can be really awkward trying to challenge people on stuff like this though :/ Hope you find a way to get through to him!

While I admit I do sneak glances at strangers all the time and have fun little daydreams about what I want to do with them, I don't think it's abnormal that you don't! We're all different and I don't think there is a normal.

[lolabobs.livejournal.com]

Maybe that's part of it - the knowing what it feels like to be ogled - he may well consider the attention he is giving them, positive as its root is, to be a good thing or a compliment, not realising how it would feel to be the recipient.

I'll have to be very careful in how I challenge this, he takes any criticism so badly - the whole, 'oh i'm such a horrible horrible person, no wonder I'm alone, what a nasty person I must be' type reaction - it's sad, he was horribly bullied as a teen and now he has various problems as a result.

Ah well. I will bring it up using your concept of how it feels for the girls maybe.

Thanks.